New Modifier: Synergy?

Malloki Tuwile

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The name is a work in progress, and this is a concept I've been working on for ... longer than I'd like to admit for something so simple in practice... First; the modifier itself.

Synergy (25 Essence PER RANK)

Two abilities that use the same Effect do not combine, you simply use the greater value. If both effects have the Synergy modifier, you may combine their ranks, up to your rank cap. An effect may only synergize with one other effect with this Modifier. This Modifier can be taken multiple times. A number of effects can be synergized equal to the number of Synergy modifiers on each effect. (Synergy 75 PER RANK on three Damage effects would allow all three to combine, for example.)

Fusion Special: if two creatures have effects with the Synergy modifier fuse, these effects synergize normally.

Synergy cannot be applied to Non-Standard effects, Adaptation or any effect with only one rank.

For example, take the following two abilities:

Natural Armor
Protection 1 (100)
-- Ongoing (100)

Creature X's hide is tougher than normal skin, allowing it to absorb more damage than normal.

Agile Movement
Agility 2 (200)

Protection 2 (200)
-- Limited (-100) (Limited to "predictable" attacks)

Creature X is very agile in every movement it makes, and it uses this to avoid attacks that it can see coming. While it cannot avoid that which "appears" on it, invisible attacks, or attacks from a stealthed target, it can use its agility to avoid taking the full force of a blade or slow-moving projectiles. (Just an example, I'm bad at actually writing moves.)


In this case, Agile Movements would completely overlap Natural Armor. Where Natural Armor is "absorbing" more damage, Agile Movements avoids it by moving out of the way. If both were to have the Synergy, Creature X would have Protection 3 against specific types of attacks, but only protection 1 against everything else. It can allow "static" effects, and "temporary" or "situational" effects to work together instead of overlapping (as I've been told they do.)


As for the inspiration behind this;
1. I've overlooked MANY character ideas that use sort of compounding items/abilities/natural affinities that I'd have to deal with overlapping or just lumping all of it into one effect and using the "Limited" modifier or something. If you had two of the same effect active at the same time, you simply used the better option. Usually, your "ongoing" would be overlapped by the "temporary," meaning you'd have to buy the effect again, just more.

2. The rise of Fusion really brought this back to the forefront of my mind because fusing is fundamentally flawed. If Creature X has a good defense, and creature Y has the slightly better defense, you don't FUSE defense, you just... overlap. Two creatures become the "best of both worlds" at the cost of "action economy." Even in a purely RP scenario... why? Creature X has climb but Creature Y doesn't so you just... fuse so you both get up the cliff? The effect just feels like expensive fodder.

3. In reality, things should work together. Big muscles + big hammer = swinging hammer a bit harder. Shield + Armor = easier to absorb damage and create glancing blows. Olympian Sprinter + Haste spell = MOAR SPED! Limiting an effect to "Only once" despite the combination not matching your level cap is honestly a difficult pill to swallow.

4. The most recent situation I've come across is using a "Transformation" that specifically enhances the character's already pronounced strength. It was instead moved to the character (not the transformation) with the Limited (only half effected without transformation) caveat... and I did a 50/50 divide because I didn't want a simple strength ability to be excessively wordy and systematic. Thus, like Synergy, Transformations cannot even "boost" just "overlap."
 

Mewtwo

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Unfortunately, this is something that I worry would get out of hand very easily. One issue as I see it comes with the "take Synergy X times to be able to overlap X + 1 effects up to your rank cap." If we get into Fusion territory it could quickly become a jumbled mess of "What effects are we synergizing (are we allowed to swap our combinations back and forth?) and what do they add up to?"

What's way worse though is that while some effects like Damage, Protection, Agility or Growth/Shrinking are easy to "add up", others that the multerran system offers don't work very well. And that's without getting into modifiers which add another layer of complexity to the point where you'd be creating what amounts to entirely new abilities that might need staff approval, which would open a whole can of worms if you're looking at people fusing during an event where time is very limited.

I could MAYBE see it working if you say it as "Any ability with Synergy can be combined with any number of other abilities that have Synergy, up to your rank cap" (Synergy is bought once per ability, not X times to be able to combine with X + 1 other abilities), perhaps raising the cost to compensate, and then put up a number of limitations where Synergy works only with certain Effects and Modifiers. I would say Variable Creation, Limited and Weakness should not be allowed together with Synergy, and perhaps others too.
 

Miyamoto Musashi

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This. Pretty much this.

It's making an already complex system, IMHO pointlessly further complex.


In other ways, to me it seems like trying to get the best of both worlds:
High ranks in something.
And low Essence spendage on that high rank.
Natural Armor
Protection 1 (100)
-- Ongoing (100)

Creature X's hide is tougher than normal skin, allowing it to absorb more damage than normal.

Agile Movement
Agility 2 (200)

Protection 2 (200)
-- Limited (-100) (Limited to "predictable" attacks)

If I were to do something like this, I would do it so:
Creature X Physique (700)
Protection 3 (600)
-- Ongoing (300)
Agility 2 (200)

Creature X has a hard hide as well as an evasive nature.


The move achieves the same effect as, the combined two moves, but you have to pay more essence to have that higher rank. As you IMO should.
I do not personally think you should be allowed to piecemeal together a damage 10 attack, from ten different damage 1 abilities that each have various reductions.
You say that " Two abilities that use the same Effect do not combine, you simply use the greater value. "
But this IMO fast becomes complex enough that it's easy enough to forego and forget those downsides of the individual moves that are there to reduce the cost, when you start combining multiple abilities together and stitching things together.
 

Malloki Tuwile

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[QUOTE="Mewtwo:

I could MAYBE see it working if you say it as "Any ability with Synergy can be combined with any number of other abilities that have Synergy, up to your rank cap" (Synergy is bought once per ability, not X times to be able to combine with X + 1 other abilities), perhaps raising the cost to compensate, and then put up a number of limitations where Synergy works only with certain Effects and Modifiers. I would say Variable Creation, Limited and Weakness should not be allowed together with Synergy, and perhaps others too.
[/QUOTE]

Increasing the cost to 50, or to 100 would help override the current issue that this is supposed to make things overly cheap. I could see Synergy working flat with other things with synergy.

Maybe it has a clause of "with compatible effect variations" which would (at best) require an admin to glance over something to make sure the two effects are not used drastically different, or that they could "synergize" well in some way.

Debuffs probably would not synergize, now that I take a closer look at the list. Variable Creation would be in the same boat depending on specific circumstances.

If the price went to at least 75 per rank (to be some amount over Limited) I could see limited still being allowed. Could be a 100 per rank effect and I would still take it for the stacking of static effects and things like spell effects or temporary boosts.
 

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I see why this would be neat as an idea, but like Val said, you can just flavor your moves differently.

You can have a protection 3 effect that takes into account your skills at dodging AND your armor (as long as you have the right modifer)
 

Mickey Mouse

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Yeah, from a personal standpoint; my prevailing feeling with this is that I don’t see how it actually makes anything cheaper? Maybe in a few circumstances, but I don’t think the net benefit is enough to warrant a whole new modifier. I think the same thing can be accomplished by just creating a new “combo” ability, and with negative modifiers, the actual difference in Essence cost would be slim to none.
 
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Having done a few "example" Abilities to see how this would work, I came to the conclusion that, if it was only for your own stuff, it would be much more expensive than a single Ability that you've worded in a way to account for the various things that would apply to it.

It could get individually cheaper if a group used it to "stack" low rank auras on top of each other.

My main thing is that, like other mentioned above, it isn't really necessary. It's adding an extra layer of complexity (Ability Stacking) onto a system which is already fairly complex.
 

Mickey Mouse

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That being said - this input and idea is super cool of you to work so hard on, and I know it (‘combo moves’) been on my mind a little bit lately and I personally appreciate the thought and effort put into this.
 

Raal Deathwind

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I think in the current form, while I like the idea of the modifier, I think it doesn't accomplish too many goals.
From making combo moves cheaper? it makes a low impact at best.
From making a sheet easy to read? it creates problems.
From making a combo character more viable: it does work when someone has a lot of it going. Someone with like, 6 different variable ammos would appreciate it, for instance.

With that said: I think as the modifier is now, it can't accomplish any of it's goals well enough to do the job. But I do think the idea and the thing wanted out of the modifier is completely solid. I'd love to see you take another pass at this in the future.
 

Malloki Tuwile

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With the feedback, I think I'll try to revise this modifier. The feedback is quite helpful and gives me a bit more insight into how it can and should not be used.

I'll be working on this now and then in g. Docs, which I will link below. I've turned on comments if you guys have insight or thoughts, but as a heads up these are NOTES and ideas. They are a chaotic mess of "as it comes to me" and "revised here and there."

 
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